July 8, 2012; Kansas City, MO, USA; Kansas City Royals former player Mike Sweeney (right) celebrates with George Brett (left) after a home run during the 2012 Legends and Celebrity softball game at Kauffman Stadium. Mandatory Credit: Peter G. Aiken-US PRESSWIRE

Recently, there’s been some discussion on the Kansas City Baseball Vault about these sorts of matters. We’ve discussed what four players would comprise a Royals Mt. Rushmore. Our latest episode considered the case of Joe Randa and others as potential members of the Royals Hall of Fame.

The players who’ve already been elected have solid cases. Ranking them by bWAR makes Cookie Rojas (5.4) the most suspect of Royals Hall of Famers, but he also played during some of the Royals first winning seasons and made four All-Star teams as a Royal.

So what makes a player worthy of his team’s hall of fame? Number help, and someone in the top five all time would be a shoo-in, but what about the fringe cases? What about the group of players who played after George Brett retired? Players like Johnny Damon, Jermaine Dye and Carlos Beltran have good numbers in the years when they were Royals, but Dye’s best years were with the White Sox. Damon was a key figure in the Red Sox 2004 World Series season. Beltran hasn’t been in a Royals uniform in nearly a decade. They also played on teams that didn’t win a lot of games and obviously didn’t make a playoff appearance.

Does that discount the efforts of Mike Sweeney, who played in more games as a Royal than Royals Hall of Famers John Mayberry and Freddie Patek? Does never making the playoffs make Randa, who’s seventh all time as a Royal in base hits, an easy no?

Also, does it matter that a player like Randa wasn’t the key player on those teams?

Then, how do you rank someone like David Cone, who only threw 448.1 innings as a Royal but is one of three Royals to win a Cy Young Award?

So many questions.

To me, numbers matter and a player who put up good ones as a Royal should get consideration. To an extent, tenure matters too. A player is better off being more recognizable as a Royal than a member of another team. Mayberry is more known for his strong years as a Royal than those as a Blue Jay.

That makes the cases for Damon, Dye and Beltran pretty tough to make. They had the numbers, but most merely doff their cap at their Royals years, while their time on other teams stand out. What, then, happens if Damon, with over 2700 career base hits, were to make the National Baseball Hall of Fame? Can a team have a player start their career with them, spend years in the organization and on the team and then make the Hall but not their own team’s?

Here are some other cases that interest me:

Charlie Leibrandt spent time in a Royals uniform from 1984 to 1989, accumulating 21.5 WAR in 1257 innings. That’s more WAR than Paul Splittorff, more innings than Steve Busby. Leibrandt also made two strong starts in the 1985 World Series after finishing in the top five of Cy Young voting that season. He was never a star, but was a solid starter in his time.

Mike Sweeney finished his career as a Royal with the same on base percentage as George Brett, though in less than half as many games. Still, in the late-90s and early 2000s, Sweeney was a premier slugger in the AL. After trying to keep his career going with the Mariners, A’s and Phillies, he’s still recognizable as a Royal first. He’s always been active in the community and well-liked. Based on that, he’s the obvious next choice to be inducted, but the teams he played on were rarely any good. Is a good player on a crummy team worthy of such recognition? Probably so, but I’d listen to someone who had a strong argument against it.

Danny Tartabull spent just five years with the Royals but ended with the highest OPS+ of any Royal with significant playing time. He drove in 100 runs three times in those five seasons, surpassing 30 homers twice as well. Does playing on teams where he was overshadowed by Brett and Bo Jackson impact his standing in franchise history? It shouldn’t, but it does.

David DeJesus was solid in his Royals career, but never a star. He never excelled in any offensive category, but simply got on base, hit the ball and played adequate defense. He just happened to stick it out with the Royals long enough to end up in the top ten of multiple offensive categories, but he never made an All-Star game and never considered much of a star, but his ranks within the franchise’s history look impressive relatively. He had more WAR than Damon (though in two more seasons).

What about Mike Macfarlane, a solid catcher and often one of the few power threats in some weak Kansas City lineups? What about Tom Gordon, who is more recognizable as a member of the Red Sox, but who threw more innings than Royals Hall of Famers Jeff Montgomery and Dan Quisenberry (and nearly as much WAR as Busby)? What do you do about Zack Greinke when he retires? He’s probably not signing back with the Royals, but only Kevin Appier, Bret Saberhagen and Mark Gubicza (all of whom had more than 500 innings as Royals) have more pitching WAR than Greinke.

You don’t want to let just anybody in, but at the same time, there could be a huge gap in potential inductees given the lean years since the early-90s. I see some merit in going after Damon, Dye and Beltran, though, because for a time, they comprised the most talented outfield in baseball, gave hope for a resurgence and are always in the minds of Royals fans. They have a lasting impact on the organization, for their on-field contributions as well as their historical significance within team history (even if it’s a painful significance).

That trio and Sweeney should have a spot one of these days.

Just for fun, I made a list of some potential inductees, ranked them by WAR as a Royal and included the amount of time they spent with the team and their number of plate appearances or innings pitched: Players in italics are already inducted into the Royals Hall of Fame.

While we’d planned to talk to former Royal Joe Randa on the most recent Vault, we had problems getting ahold of him. No matter. We got a chance to evaluate his place in Royals history and questioned whether he should go into the Royals Hall of Fame which led to a discussion of who might end up in the team Hall of Fame after so many lean years. The most interesting case we brought up was David Glass – does the owner go into the Royals Hall of Fame or not?

We talked about the Jonathan Broxton trade and whether there’s such a thing as the “Closer’s Mentality”.

Finally, we talked about Luis Mendoza and just what the heck he’s doing this year to be the best starter on the Royals and dug into what the waiver trade deadline really means. It was a fun discussion.

We’ll be back next week with more discussion of Kansas City baseball, past, present and future on ESPN 1510 Thursday at 6 p.m. CST.

You can catch up on old episodes of the Kansas City Baseball Vault here on Kings of Kauffman. Episodes of the Royalman Report are available on the site as well.

Follow the Kansas City Baseball Vault on Twitter and Facebook for future programming updates. Also follow Kings of Kauffman for article updates, discussion and other information.

Tonight we continue an exciting new venture for Kings of Kauffman and its podcast, the Royalman Report.

Jeff Logan of the Kansas City Baseball Historical Society joins forces with us to form the Kansas City Baseball Vault on Kansas City’s ESPN 1510 AM from 6-7 p.m. every Thursday night. Listeners can tune into traditional radio or streaming live on 1510.com.

On this show, we’ll talk with former Royal “The Joker” Joe Randa about his time with the Royals, being part of an offensive team with crummy pitching, and his standing in the history of the Royals franchise.

We’ll also cover the trade deadline, Luis Mendoza‘s surprisingly solid year and look around the minors.

It all starts at a special time of 6:30 p.m. CST (due to Olympics coverage) on ESPN 1510 AM in Kansas City or 1510.com if you’re out of the area. 

Follow the Kansas City Baseball Vault on Twitter and Facebook for future programming updates. Also follow Kings of Kauffman for article updates, discussion and other information.

Wil Myers - no batting gloves, no pine tar, no problem. (Image: Alan Barrington)

Yes, the Royals may need to put extra dirt in the batter’s box when Wil Myers arrives in Kansas City.  Let me explain.  There are some rituals that almost every player goes through when standing in the box.  Between pitches, the majority of hitters will step out and then back in again to mentally restart their rhythm.  They tap both sides of the plate with their bat, take a couple practice swings, and then face the pitcher and wait for the delivery.

A few players have slightly more elaborate batter’s box rituals.  You may remember Mike Sweeney sweeping the dirt of the box with his feet, tapping his shoes with the bat to knock the dirt from his cleats, re-stretching the Velcro of his batting gloves, and pressing his helmet back down on his head.  Lots of batters do these things, but few do all of them between every pitch as Sweeney did.

I couldn’t find any video of Joe Randa standing in the box, but I seem to remember that he would pull up the shoulders of his jersey before each pitch.  He also plastered that weird grin on his face that caused fans to refer to him as the Joker.  Just for fun, check out “Batting Stance Guy’s” take on some historic Royals.  You’ll be surprised how many players you’ll recognize just from their ritual in the batter’s box.

Some baseball players have truly unusual batter’s box rituals.  No doubt you’ve seen the windmill practice swings, the elbow flaps, or Craig Counsell formerly of the Brewers and Diamondbacks holding the bat as high over his head as his arms could reach.

When I was in college in the 1980’s, my school’s baseball team played Oklahoma State a couple of times each year.  The OSU Cowboys had a player named Jim Traber who was drafted in the 21^st round by the Orioles and ended up playing a couple of years in the big leagues.  I hated Jim Traber, for no reason other than I disliked his batting stance.  When he came to the plate, he would take a few practice swings and then point his bat at the mound until the pitcher went into his windup.  I always thought that if I was a pitcher, if any hitter pointed his bat at me I would immediately throw at his head.  Fortunately, none of the pitchers I saw ever lost their cool with Jim Traber the way I would have.

Some batter’s box rituals, such as Carlos Beltran’s, can’t be discussed here.  This is a family web site after all.  Actually, I think this story about Beltran’s ritual is a joke…  or is it?

Which brings us to Wil Myers.  Most Kansas City fans haven’t had a chance to see Wil Myers play yet.  I had an opportunity to watch him with the Northwest Arkansas Naturals recently, before he was promoted to the Storm Chasers.  There are also several videos of him posted on YouTube, including some very nice pieces of video from Lee Warren @OmahaBaseball.  (Lee is a good follow on Twitter too by the way.)

While Christian Colon bats, Wil Myers waits to get his hands dirty. (Image: Alan Barrington)

When you see Will Myers hit, you’ll notice that he has a pretty elaborate set of batter’s box rituals.  He’ll do a variety of things between each pitch that you’ve seen from other players: knock the dirt from his cleats, straighten his cap, step out, tap the plate, sweep the box with his foot, etc.  But he also does something you typically only see in sandlot games – at some point in almost every at bat, he’ll lean down, grab some dirt and rub his hands together.  Wil doesn’t use batting gloves and it doesn’t appear that he uses much, if any, pine tar on his bat either.  Grabbing some dirt is most likely the way he keeps his hands dry and helps him to get a good grip.

If you’ve read any of my previous stories, you may know I’ve been a Royals fan for a very, very long time, beginning in their 1969 inaugural season.  I’m definitely an old school guy who doesn’t understand players who wear their caps crooked, hang bling around their necks, finish the game with a clean uniform, or think it’s acceptable to award home run records to losers who use steroids or human growth hormones.  I want to see guys taking out the second baseman on a double play, standing at the top of the dugout cheering their teammates, and pitching inside (way inside) when Miguel Cabrera or Josh Hamilton comes to the plate.

I don’t know if rubbing a little bit of dirt on your hands before swinging a bat is truly old school or not, but I certainly like how this approach could add to the personality of our team.  It never hurts when you have a few players who are willing to get their hands dirty.