Comments on: Worth a Shot: Johnny Giavotella and Learning From History http://kingsofkauffman.com/2011/07/25/worth-a-shot-johnny-giavotella-and-learning-from-history/ A Kansas City Royals Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and More Thu, 29 Nov 2012 02:29:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: jim fetterolf http://kingsofkauffman.com/2011/07/25/worth-a-shot-johnny-giavotella-and-learning-from-history/#comment-2019483 jim fetterolf Sat, 30 Jul 2011 22:33:40 +0000 http://kingsofkauffman.com/?p=9851#comment-2019483 @michael.allen.engel Small sample size applies, but a change of swing angle, restoring his previous hand dominance, and the fact that it is no longer easy to pitch around Billy in the lineup suggests at least the possibility of a trend. Pitchers will adjust, Billy will adjust, and life will go on, but I think Billy has turned a corner, like Gordon did with adjustments, so this is better than a coin toss of being real.With Clint, and Cain and Gio, the 25% drop that has been established for others from Omaha this year suggests that Robinson would get blown away with FBs up and in and breaking stuff low and away. That's why I prefer Melky at DH were Butler to get traded. @michael.allen.engel Small sample size applies, but a change of swing angle, restoring his previous hand dominance, and the fact that it is no longer easy to pitch around Billy in the lineup suggests at least the possibility of a trend. Pitchers will adjust, Billy will adjust, and life will go on, but I think Billy has turned a corner, like Gordon did with adjustments, so this is better than a coin toss of being real.With Clint, and Cain and Gio, the 25% drop that has been established for others from Omaha this year suggests that Robinson would get blown away with FBs up and in and breaking stuff low and away. That’s why I prefer Melky at DH were Butler to get traded.

]]> By: jim fetterolf http://kingsofkauffman.com/2011/07/25/worth-a-shot-johnny-giavotella-and-learning-from-history/#comment-2019481 jim fetterolf Sat, 30 Jul 2011 21:29:59 +0000 http://kingsofkauffman.com/?p=9851#comment-2019481 @michael.allen.engel With Cain, we also need to remember that his major league .305 was about the same time Kila looked to be a star for 2011. I think Cain and Gio will be productive major leaguers but think Gio's glove may not play well and major league pitching will find weaknesses, as it has even with Hosmer and certainly with Moose, so won't be a quick fix and may never be more than a slower Chris Getz with more pop and less glove. Cain profiles a little better, but strikes out 25% of the time in Omaha, so has exploitable weaknesses when he comes up. Given that we have Melky for another year and that neither Cain nor Melky have a RF arm, Cain in Omaha isn't forcing anything. @michael.allen.engel With Cain, we also need to remember that his major league .305 was about the same time Kila looked to be a star for 2011. I think Cain and Gio will be productive major leaguers but think Gio’s glove may not play well and major league pitching will find weaknesses, as it has even with Hosmer and certainly with Moose, so won’t be a quick fix and may never be more than a slower Chris Getz with more pop and less glove. Cain profiles a little better, but strikes out 25% of the time in Omaha, so has exploitable weaknesses when he comes up. Given that we have Melky for another year and that neither Cain nor Melky have a RF arm, Cain in Omaha isn’t forcing anything.

]]> By: michael.allen.engel http://kingsofkauffman.com/2011/07/25/worth-a-shot-johnny-giavotella-and-learning-from-history/#comment-2019480 michael.allen.engel Sat, 30 Jul 2011 21:29:24 +0000 http://kingsofkauffman.com/?p=9851#comment-2019480 @jim fetterolf Couldn't you just say "it's only one week" though? Billy hitting homers is fine with me, but I don't want him to try to hit ONLY homers and ignore the skills he has in other areas at the plate. As for Robinson, a lot of the people I've heard from on Twitter and other venues seem to think that Robinson could step in and replace Butler with no problem and it's exactly why Butler should be traded. Probably the minority, but they're out there...and they're wrong. I hope he hits, but Robinson isn't going to be at the top of "best young pure hitters in the game" lists. @jim fetterolf Couldn’t you just say “it’s only one week” though? Billy hitting homers is fine with me, but I don’t want him to try to hit ONLY homers and ignore the skills he has in other areas at the plate.

As for Robinson, a lot of the people I’ve heard from on Twitter and other venues seem to think that Robinson could step in and replace Butler with no problem and it’s exactly why Butler should be traded. Probably the minority, but they’re out there…and they’re wrong. I hope he hits, but Robinson isn’t going to be at the top of “best young pure hitters in the game” lists.

]]> By: michael.allen.engel http://kingsofkauffman.com/2011/07/25/worth-a-shot-johnny-giavotella-and-learning-from-history/#comment-2019479 michael.allen.engel Sat, 30 Jul 2011 21:22:57 +0000 http://kingsofkauffman.com/?p=9851#comment-2019479 @jim fetterolf Also remember that Aviles was a $1000 bonus guy and Kila was a middle round selection. These guys were never held in high regard by scouts. Both seem to be the AAAA player that never goes anywhere. Cain and Gio will struggle initially (though Cain hit last year in half a season with Milwaukee - a lot of people seem to forget that he performed capably in the big leagues last year) just because it is a jump in levels. Scouts (and minor league track records both suggest that they'll get it after enough time. Gio's hit at every level and seems to be improving as he advances. I want to see that bat get to KC. @jim fetterolf Also remember that Aviles was a $1000 bonus guy and Kila was a middle round selection. These guys were never held in high regard by scouts. Both seem to be the AAAA player that never goes anywhere.

Cain and Gio will struggle initially (though Cain hit last year in half a season with Milwaukee – a lot of people seem to forget that he performed capably in the big leagues last year) just because it is a jump in levels. Scouts (and minor league track records both suggest that they’ll get it after enough time. Gio’s hit at every level and seems to be improving as he advances. I want to see that bat get to KC.

]]> By: jim fetterolf http://kingsofkauffman.com/2011/07/25/worth-a-shot-johnny-giavotella-and-learning-from-history/#comment-2019478 jim fetterolf Sat, 30 Jul 2011 17:48:30 +0000 http://kingsofkauffman.com/?p=9851#comment-2019478 @michael.allen.engel The idea of trading Butler was never about Robinson being a more productive hitter than Butler, but whether the team was stronger with, perhaps, Cain in center, Melky at DH, and a couple of top prospect pitchers in the high minors. In any trade it's about the return plus the replacement. Since Billy has changed his approach and swing, it's become a moot point. @michael.allen.engel The idea of trading Butler was never about Robinson being a more productive hitter than Butler, but whether the team was stronger with, perhaps, Cain in center, Melky at DH, and a couple of top prospect pitchers in the high minors. In any trade it’s about the return plus the replacement. Since Billy has changed his approach and swing, it’s become a moot point.

]]> By: jim fetterolf http://kingsofkauffman.com/2011/07/25/worth-a-shot-johnny-giavotella-and-learning-from-history/#comment-2019475 jim fetterolf Fri, 29 Jul 2011 14:46:46 +0000 http://kingsofkauffman.com/?p=9851#comment-2019475 On Kila, I would mention that he is currently hitting .279 in the minors and hitting .245 against righties. He has 6 HRs, but 45 walks, so has an OBP close to .400. His BA ranks him ahead of Lance Zawadski among Omaha starters. Apparently the scouts saw something that the stats missed, although Kila is further evidence of the about 25% difference between AAA and the Show, mirroring Aviles 90 point jump when demoted and inverse to the drop for the Twin Messiahs. Something to think about with Cain and Giavotella. On Kila, I would mention that he is currently hitting .279 in the minors and hitting .245 against righties. He has 6 HRs, but 45 walks, so has an OBP close to .400. His BA ranks him ahead of Lance Zawadski among Omaha starters. Apparently the scouts saw something that the stats missed, although Kila is further evidence of the about 25% difference between AAA and the Show, mirroring Aviles 90 point jump when demoted and inverse to the drop for the Twin Messiahs. Something to think about with Cain and Giavotella.

]]> By: michael.allen.engel http://kingsofkauffman.com/2011/07/25/worth-a-shot-johnny-giavotella-and-learning-from-history/#comment-2019472 michael.allen.engel Thu, 28 Jul 2011 01:31:00 +0000 http://kingsofkauffman.com/?p=9851#comment-2019472 @jim fetterolf The whole Clint Robinson thing is very much a backup QB situation...sure, as long as the starter is struggling or perceived to be struggling, the other guy looks like a better option. I like Clint Robinson and I hope he defies the odds, but he's nothing more than a bit player if the Royals traded Butler. Think Kila minus the patience and slower. Everyone wants to see those guys until they come up and they don't adjust or their skills don't progress to MLB-levels. If Clint does turn into a real masher in the bigs, it's going to be for another team, barring some huge injury (and I can't see Butler getting traded). If the Royals traded Butler though, and Robinson struggled while Billy continued his milquetoast .385+ OBP (with future power development), there would be effigies of everyone in the Royals front office. Gio is going to have to work to make the plays at second, but he's a more well-rounded hitter and the bat should balance out the fielding issues at least. @jim fetterolf The whole Clint Robinson thing is very much a backup QB situation…sure, as long as the starter is struggling or perceived to be struggling, the other guy looks like a better option.

I like Clint Robinson and I hope he defies the odds, but he’s nothing more than a bit player if the Royals traded Butler. Think Kila minus the patience and slower. Everyone wants to see those guys until they come up and they don’t adjust or their skills don’t progress to MLB-levels. If Clint does turn into a real masher in the bigs, it’s going to be for another team, barring some huge injury (and I can’t see Butler getting traded).

If the Royals traded Butler though, and Robinson struggled while Billy continued his milquetoast .385+ OBP (with future power development), there would be effigies of everyone in the Royals front office.

Gio is going to have to work to make the plays at second, but he’s a more well-rounded hitter and the bat should balance out the fielding issues at least.

]]> By: jim fetterolf http://kingsofkauffman.com/2011/07/25/worth-a-shot-johnny-giavotella-and-learning-from-history/#comment-2019467 jim fetterolf Tue, 26 Jul 2011 04:06:35 +0000 http://kingsofkauffman.com/?p=9851#comment-2019467 Getz hasn't gotten the grief that Billy has because, before Gio's recent surge, the system looked barren at 2b, Gio hitting around .300 with split issues with righties and not considered much of a defender. Billy had Clint Robinson behind him abusing AAA hitting. On top of that, Getz wasn't exactly a disappointment, especially after he heated up and jumped his average 40 points. Billy, on the other hand, wasn't doing much besides walking, not driving in many runs and scoring less that Getz and Escobar, results beneath the hopes for a strong, 235 pound young man. Looks like Butler may be starting to heat up a little, got some fire burning again, so we'll never know what C Rob could do for the Royals. Giavotella will get his chance soon, after another trade when a roster spot opens, the Royals apparently saving one for Montgomery. Then we'll see if his average drops a similar percentage to that of the two elite hitters, the Twin Messiahs. If so, we'll be able to gripe about Gio hitting .250 and reminding us of Aviles in the field:) Getz hasn’t gotten the grief that Billy has because, before Gio’s recent surge, the system looked barren at 2b, Gio hitting around .300 with split issues with righties and not considered much of a defender. Billy had Clint Robinson behind him abusing AAA hitting. On top of that, Getz wasn’t exactly a disappointment, especially after he heated up and jumped his average 40 points. Billy, on the other hand, wasn’t doing much besides walking, not driving in many runs and scoring less that Getz and Escobar, results beneath the hopes for a strong, 235 pound young man.

Looks like Butler may be starting to heat up a little, got some fire burning again, so we’ll never know what C Rob could do for the Royals. Giavotella will get his chance soon, after another trade when a roster spot opens, the Royals apparently saving one for Montgomery. Then we’ll see if his average drops a similar percentage to that of the two elite hitters, the Twin Messiahs. If so, we’ll be able to gripe about Gio hitting .250 and reminding us of Aviles in the field:)

]]> By: FWEndo http://kingsofkauffman.com/2011/07/25/worth-a-shot-johnny-giavotella-and-learning-from-history/#comment-2019466 FWEndo Tue, 26 Jul 2011 01:17:39 +0000 http://kingsofkauffman.com/?p=9851#comment-2019466 Excellent point Mike. I hope DM considers issues like this when shaping the Royals roster. Excellent point Mike. I hope DM considers issues like this when shaping the Royals roster.

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