If they offer another Odorizzi and a top 100 2B or C, we should probably take it. Make Melky the DH and get an increase in doubles, triples, homers, runs, rbi, stolen bases that can also back up three OF positions, then bring up Cain and his plus defense to play center. Team currently has three major holes; SP, C, and 2B that we don’t have obvious fixes for in-house. If trading Billy fixes two of them, it’s worth it. If we can’t get that much return, then Billy stays in the five or six slot for another fifteen years, at least until Cuthbert pushes Mooose off third and into DH:)

He’s since increased his batting average, production, and has gone yard three times.

How many line drives has he hit right at someone? Or drives that get caught in the outfield? The first two months he was very unlucky. That’s usually a copout, but his batted ball stats have been consistent with his career numbers, but more have been caught. Now it’s starting to correct and he’s producing.

If he were hitting .335 instead of .300 with ten more RBI would this even be an issue?

RBIs measure what the players around a player do. Really, no sense discussing that.

Heard Ryan calling the game a few weeks ago with Denny. He’s going on and on about Getz. He says to Denny, “Denny, you have to say something positive about a guy who looks at so many pitches.” The moment of silence that followed was nearly as good as eye rolling. Finally, Denny said, “Well, yes.” Getz grounded to second on the next pitch.

We’ll see if Hosmer is a hitter second time through the league. And Moose, too. The grass will always be greener in Omaha, I’m afraid.

I’m sure Oakland or Boston would be in the market for Mr. Butler. They subscribe to the theory that stolen bases are not a good risk most of the time, that hitters who have patience and only swing at good pitches help the ball club, that driving the ball to the gaps wins games. Seems to me Frenchy has hit into more double plays this year than Billy.

My sense is he’s about to get locked in again. I wouldn’t want to be an opposing pitcher when that happens.

Tried that, then they changed for some reason.

“pretty tough to rack up those RBI’s when you lead off the inning every at bat.”

Gordon, Melky, and Frenchy all have more RBIs than Billy and Hos is catching him. Billy would probably have more, but since he’s dropped to the 5 slot, he’s easy to pitch around with Aviles or Betemit behind him. Now that Moooose is protecting him, I think we see Billy’s BBs drop as pitchers take their chances with him rather than putting a runner on for a legitimate power threat.

Billy’s a solid hitter and a good guy, according to Sam Mellinger’s recent blog on him, but he’s no longer a star on a horrible team, now he’s got three, four, or five guys around him that are more dangerous than he is and they all play positions, three of them at a plus level. Everyone else on the team also runs faster, including the two catchers. Billy is good at the four or five plate appearances he gets per game, is awful during the plays when he’s on base, and for most of the game he’s on the bench, watching. Just the way it is.

Now the speed….well, can’t help him on that one, haha.

The only thing i don’t get is why we don’t flip Billy and Frenchy in the order, Alex then Billy were great together in the lineup, Hosmer then Billy could be even better.

ab rbi runs hr
ortiz 237 43 42 17
martinez187 35 26 6
abreu 237 29 26 2
butler 238 29 31 6
dunn 200 29 20 7
matsiu 190 25 15 4
hafner 117 22 17 5
cust 180 19 16 2
thome 76 12 7 4

Saber is good for offense, because it deals with easily quantifiable items, like Ks, BBs, hits, errors, things that the official scorer can define. It doesn’t seem much use at quantifying defensive value, because the official scorer doesn’t give a ‘prevented hit’ for an outstanding play by Esky in short left, or a ‘great scoop’ by Hosmer on a two-bouncer from Getz as he’s being bulldozed by a base runner, or a ‘manly stop’ when Treanor crumples a base runner at the plate who scores against Buck or Olivo with their fear of contact and sissy swipe tags. It all ultimately gets back to eyeballs and Polk’s system and Lee Judge’s game analysis tend to agree with what I see. I’m about the same age as Lee, so some of it may just be old dogs and new tricks, but some of it may be that sabermetrics has quite a bit more work to do to accurately reflect the game on the field. Good discussion, thanks.

RBIs and Runs Scored are a fine way to judge a lineup and a team, but they’re a *terrible* way to judge a single player.

OBP doesn’t score runs or prevent them, HRs, RBIs, and assists at the plate do.

“Getz: nothing about that “system” needs to be taken seriously. Getz is a bad player.”

That seems the conventional wisdom from the statheads, but a lot of that is that defense is difficult to quantify. On Royals Review I’m still hearing that Aviles is an average major league 2B based on his record in 2nd grade T-Ball:) With Getzie, he has OBP so should get love from SABR, but doesn’t. He could be better and I might not argue with bring Gio up and benching Getz, but I see nothing to suggest that he is ‘bad’.

As for the Polk system, I think it superior to the SABR alternative, as it attempts to value what the eyeballs see, so factors in exceptional defense and blocked pitches with a runner on third, or even actual runs scored and driven in. When games are decided by cumulative OBP rather than runs, Ill discount defense and speed and clutch hitting. We’ll just have to disagree on this.

Getz: nothing about that “system” needs to be taken seriously. Getz is a bad player.

“Billy Butler is getting better, and this season he is becoming one of the better hitters in the American League, despite being buried 5th in a lineup behind a black-hole, again.”

The ‘black hole’ that Billy trails is tied for the club lead in HR and RBI. We could suggest that Billy gets so many walks because, in the 5 slot, he has hit ahead of the black hole occupied by Aviles and Betemit. With Moose up, we’ll see the semi-intentional walks drop as pitchers take their chances with a .300 BA from a ground ball hitter.

“There are things with this team that should draw the ire of Royals fans, like Chris Getz.”

Good OBP, good defense, top ten RISP, works a walk, gives quality at bats, runs well, doesn’t need to be PR’ed for. Ron Polk’s system, as used by Lee Judge, ranks both Escobar and Getzie ahead of Butler on total contribution to a game.

On Butler in general, since bloggers tend to be forming a defensive circle around him, whether here, at the Star, or at Royals Review, he is a fine DH and should be kept unless he can be traded for a young catching or 2B prospect and a potential #2 starter, half the value of Greinke. If we get the offer, trade him, if not, keep him and trade Clint Robinson and Kila for value.