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	<title>Comments on: Royals Rotten Decade (2008)</title>
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		<title>By: Wally Fish</title>
		<link>http://kingsofkauffman.com/2010/01/30/royals-rotten-decade-2008/#comment-1483</link>
		<dc:creator>Wally Fish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 22:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingsofkauffman.com/?p=3097#comment-1483</guid>
		<description>&quot;Dayton Moore hasn’t done any bad trades in his time as GM.&quot;

Really?  You like the results of the JP Howell for Joey Gathright deal?  I&#039;m not taking a shot, just pointing out a fact of life, ALL GMs make bad trades at one point or another.

I disagree that both the Jacobs and Crisp trades looked good at the time they were made.  

Jacobs and his HR total in 2008 completely masked (in Dayton&#039;s eyes anyway) the fact that he was a liability in every other facet of the game.  Further it was completely unrealistic to expect him to hit 30+ HR in 2009.  Outside of the HR numbers he didn&#039;t fit into the team&#039;s plans in 2009 or beyond and his presence also blocked a chance a playing time of Kila.  Nunez wasn&#039;t a huge loss, but the $3+ million they paid Jacobs in 2009 and the lost season for Kila made it a bad acquisition regardless of what they gave up.

The Crisp trade ignored his injury history and track record (he&#039;s never matched the hype around him) plus cost the team a very promising and cheap arm in Ramon Ramirez.  

Your assessment also ignores that Jacobs and Crisp were both expected to be available on the open market if Dayton had been more patient. Jacobs was a prime non-tender candidate, and the Red Sox weren&#039;t going to keep Crisp around at his salary since Ellsbury had already claimed CF for himself. 

You can find a way to justify any deal if you look hard enough, but the reality is that together the two deals led to the team overreacting and signing Farnsworth to a terrible contract.  Both trades also went against Dayton&#039;s stated objectives when he took over the team.  Instead of focusing on acquiring young talent, he was trading it away for older, more expensive players with limited to no upside.

All that said, you miss the entire point.  The team didn&#039;t have to make those deals to continue to improve in 2009.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Dayton Moore hasn’t done any bad trades in his time as GM.&#8221;</p>
<p>Really?  You like the results of the JP Howell for Joey Gathright deal?  I&#8217;m not taking a shot, just pointing out a fact of life, ALL GMs make bad trades at one point or another.</p>
<p>I disagree that both the Jacobs and Crisp trades looked good at the time they were made.  </p>
<p>Jacobs and his HR total in 2008 completely masked (in Dayton&#8217;s eyes anyway) the fact that he was a liability in every other facet of the game.  Further it was completely unrealistic to expect him to hit 30+ HR in 2009.  Outside of the HR numbers he didn&#8217;t fit into the team&#8217;s plans in 2009 or beyond and his presence also blocked a chance a playing time of Kila.  Nunez wasn&#8217;t a huge loss, but the $3+ million they paid Jacobs in 2009 and the lost season for Kila made it a bad acquisition regardless of what they gave up.</p>
<p>The Crisp trade ignored his injury history and track record (he&#8217;s never matched the hype around him) plus cost the team a very promising and cheap arm in Ramon Ramirez.  </p>
<p>Your assessment also ignores that Jacobs and Crisp were both expected to be available on the open market if Dayton had been more patient. Jacobs was a prime non-tender candidate, and the Red Sox weren&#8217;t going to keep Crisp around at his salary since Ellsbury had already claimed CF for himself. </p>
<p>You can find a way to justify any deal if you look hard enough, but the reality is that together the two deals led to the team overreacting and signing Farnsworth to a terrible contract.  Both trades also went against Dayton&#8217;s stated objectives when he took over the team.  Instead of focusing on acquiring young talent, he was trading it away for older, more expensive players with limited to no upside.</p>
<p>All that said, you miss the entire point.  The team didn&#8217;t have to make those deals to continue to improve in 2009.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin W.</title>
		<link>http://kingsofkauffman.com/2010/01/30/royals-rotten-decade-2008/#comment-1482</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 21:42:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingsofkauffman.com/?p=3097#comment-1482</guid>
		<description>None of Dayton Moores trades during the 08/09 offseason were real bad trades.

Mike Jacobs hit 11 HRs in 30 games for the Mets in 2005, did solid the couple following years, then hit 32 in &#039;08, in a ballpark that compares to Kauffman. The Royals needed power as well. The lineup wasn&#039;t looking very good defensively or with any sort of power.

Leo Nunez was someone who we were trying out for a few years now, and never had much success. He had a solid season in 2008, and his trade value was high. The only other time he had 40 games was in in 2005, and his ERA was 7.55. He wasn&#039;t any type of high prized reliever we couldn&#039;t afford to deal.

The Coco trade looked even better on paper. Speed and Defense? UNTHINKABLE in Kansas City. Butler? Has none. Callapso? Has none. Aviles? Didn&#039;t have much of both. Gordon? Below avg on both. DeJesus? Solid defense, very slow. Teahan? Below avg. defense solid speed. Gullien? Below avg. on both.

Coco just came from hitting 280/340 in 360 ABs with 20 SBs, in the AL East.
Ramon Ramirez on the other hand was an even worst project just like Nunez, though younger. Didn&#039;t do good with the Rockies, little if any success in the Minors. Had a very good year with the Royals. Didn&#039;t have the money to sign a Jacobs power type player, nor a Coco Crisp type player. Both of those trades looked good at the time they happened, and most GMs who had the opportunity to would&#039;ve done it. Not to mention, he went out and signed Juan Cruz to replace them, who was regarded much higher than Leo or Ramon.

Dayton Moore hasn&#039;t done any bad trades in his time as GM. A couple bad signings (Farnsworth and Gullien), though a lot of very good and cheap signings/extensions (Soria, Greinke, Podsednick)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>None of Dayton Moores trades during the 08/09 offseason were real bad trades.</p>
<p>Mike Jacobs hit 11 HRs in 30 games for the Mets in 2005, did solid the couple following years, then hit 32 in &#8217;08, in a ballpark that compares to Kauffman. The Royals needed power as well. The lineup wasn&#8217;t looking very good defensively or with any sort of power.</p>
<p>Leo Nunez was someone who we were trying out for a few years now, and never had much success. He had a solid season in 2008, and his trade value was high. The only other time he had 40 games was in in 2005, and his ERA was 7.55. He wasn&#8217;t any type of high prized reliever we couldn&#8217;t afford to deal.</p>
<p>The Coco trade looked even better on paper. Speed and Defense? UNTHINKABLE in Kansas City. Butler? Has none. Callapso? Has none. Aviles? Didn&#8217;t have much of both. Gordon? Below avg on both. DeJesus? Solid defense, very slow. Teahan? Below avg. defense solid speed. Gullien? Below avg. on both.</p>
<p>Coco just came from hitting 280/340 in 360 ABs with 20 SBs, in the AL East.<br />
Ramon Ramirez on the other hand was an even worst project just like Nunez, though younger. Didn&#8217;t do good with the Rockies, little if any success in the Minors. Had a very good year with the Royals. Didn&#8217;t have the money to sign a Jacobs power type player, nor a Coco Crisp type player. Both of those trades looked good at the time they happened, and most GMs who had the opportunity to would&#8217;ve done it. Not to mention, he went out and signed Juan Cruz to replace them, who was regarded much higher than Leo or Ramon.</p>
<p>Dayton Moore hasn&#8217;t done any bad trades in his time as GM. A couple bad signings (Farnsworth and Gullien), though a lot of very good and cheap signings/extensions (Soria, Greinke, Podsednick)</p>
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