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	<title>Comments on: Trading Joakim Soria is Fool&#8217;s Gold</title>
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	<description>A Kansas City Royals Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and More</description>
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		<title>By: 2009: A Look Back At The Year In Sports(blog) &#124; FanSided</title>
		<link>http://kingsofkauffman.com/2009/10/25/trading-joakim-soria-is-fools-gold/#comment-1155</link>
		<dc:creator>2009: A Look Back At The Year In Sports(blog) &#124; FanSided</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jan 2010 06:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingsofkauffman.com/?p=1973#comment-1155</guid>
		<description>[...] Saving Soria Part 1. Part 2. - Kings of Kauffman [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Saving Soria Part 1. Part 2. &#8211; Kings of Kauffman [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Parker</title>
		<link>http://kingsofkauffman.com/2009/10/25/trading-joakim-soria-is-fools-gold/#comment-369</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Parker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 14:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingsofkauffman.com/?p=1973#comment-369</guid>
		<description>Definitely, those were some ugly bullpens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Definitely, those were some ugly bullpens.</p>
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		<title>By: Wally Fish</title>
		<link>http://kingsofkauffman.com/2009/10/25/trading-joakim-soria-is-fools-gold/#comment-368</link>
		<dc:creator>Wally Fish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 03:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingsofkauffman.com/?p=1973#comment-368</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the kind words Jeff!  In my opinion, a good closer is extremely valuable for winning or losing teams.  What would the team&#039;s record have been in 1999 or 2000 if the team had Soria-type player closing out games for them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the kind words Jeff!  In my opinion, a good closer is extremely valuable for winning or losing teams.  What would the team&#8217;s record have been in 1999 or 2000 if the team had Soria-type player closing out games for them?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Parker</title>
		<link>http://kingsofkauffman.com/2009/10/25/trading-joakim-soria-is-fools-gold/#comment-362</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Parker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 07:57:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingsofkauffman.com/?p=1973#comment-362</guid>
		<description>Well written and you laid out the case for keeping him much better than I did. They say a below .500 team doesn&#039;t need a great closer but wasn&#039;t Trey&#039;s use of Soria a major issue on blogs and message boards all year?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well written and you laid out the case for keeping him much better than I did. They say a below .500 team doesn&#8217;t need a great closer but wasn&#8217;t Trey&#8217;s use of Soria a major issue on blogs and message boards all year?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Froeschl</title>
		<link>http://kingsofkauffman.com/2009/10/25/trading-joakim-soria-is-fools-gold/#comment-354</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Froeschl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingsofkauffman.com/?p=1973#comment-354</guid>
		<description>bfos7215,

To rebut a few of your points:

(2) True, it does. But it makes him more valuable to the Royals than it would say a Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, (insert $100 million payroll team).

(4) St. Louis has a core of one player: Albert Pujols. Granted, he is the best, but the point is a core can be any number of players. Soria is part of the Royals &quot;core.&quot;

(7) His value right now is not sky-high. He had some arm troubles this past season; as Wally pointed out, there are multiple other (albeit lesser) FA options; and most important, a closer typically nets the best return when a contending team midseason decides they need to beef up the bullpen. Desperation. That&#039;s when teams will give up more than they imagined for a closer. Not the offseason.

The Royals no doubt are devoid of talent at all higher levels of the organization. And I am not anti-trade-Soria. If the Royals can make a deal that makes sense, fine. That goes for any player, even Butler or Greinke. But elite players are not a dime-a-dozen. Elite players are the guys you hang onto and build around. Soria is an elite closer. I would rather see the Royals build around him than use him to gather a larger quantity of lesser (or unpredictable) players.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bfos7215,</p>
<p>To rebut a few of your points:</p>
<p>(2) True, it does. But it makes him more valuable to the Royals than it would say a Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, (insert $100 million payroll team).</p>
<p>(4) St. Louis has a core of one player: Albert Pujols. Granted, he is the best, but the point is a core can be any number of players. Soria is part of the Royals &#8220;core.&#8221;</p>
<p>(7) His value right now is not sky-high. He had some arm troubles this past season; as Wally pointed out, there are multiple other (albeit lesser) FA options; and most important, a closer typically nets the best return when a contending team midseason decides they need to beef up the bullpen. Desperation. That&#8217;s when teams will give up more than they imagined for a closer. Not the offseason.</p>
<p>The Royals no doubt are devoid of talent at all higher levels of the organization. And I am not anti-trade-Soria. If the Royals can make a deal that makes sense, fine. That goes for any player, even Butler or Greinke. But elite players are not a dime-a-dozen. Elite players are the guys you hang onto and build around. Soria is an elite closer. I would rather see the Royals build around him than use him to gather a larger quantity of lesser (or unpredictable) players.</p>
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		<title>By: Wally Fish</title>
		<link>http://kingsofkauffman.com/2009/10/25/trading-joakim-soria-is-fools-gold/#comment-353</link>
		<dc:creator>Wally Fish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 03:50:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingsofkauffman.com/?p=1973#comment-353</guid>
		<description>bfos7215,
We clearly approach the Soria matter from opposite ends of the spectrum and that is awesome.  Solutions to problems are most readily found through differing viewpoints and discussion.  Of course in this case, it would help if one of us was the GM of the Royals ...

A group of 3 elite players is indeed a core to build around, at least to me it is.  The Phillies are in the World Series with a core of 4 elite players:  Hamels, Rollins, Utley, and Howard.  No question that the Phillies supporting cast is far superior to that of the Royals.  The good news is that the supporting cast is much easier to acquire than the elite core, and the Royals will have serious payroll flexibility to play with heading into the 2011 and 2012 seasons.

With Butler, Greinke, and Soria in place, this team can compete not 4 years from now but in 2011.  Right now, there is a lot of help that is 1-2.5 years away from the majors.  Even with the expected attrition of some of the pitching prospects help will arrive from the minors and certainly be contributing to the team by 2012.

Getting prospects back for Soria doesn&#039;t guarantee they will fill any holes adequately while you open up another hole at the same time.  

One of the sayings about trades is that the team that gets the established ML talent is the one that typically &quot;wins&quot; the deal, and there is a reason for that.  Yes there are exceptions, but I&#039;d venture a guess that at least 9 out of 10 times, deals like trading Soria wind up backfiring on the team that acquires the prospects for the established talent.

Just my take on things.  At some point the Royals are going to HAVE to draw a line in the sand and hang on to some of these players if they ever expect to build a winning organization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bfos7215,<br />
We clearly approach the Soria matter from opposite ends of the spectrum and that is awesome.  Solutions to problems are most readily found through differing viewpoints and discussion.  Of course in this case, it would help if one of us was the GM of the Royals &#8230;</p>
<p>A group of 3 elite players is indeed a core to build around, at least to me it is.  The Phillies are in the World Series with a core of 4 elite players:  Hamels, Rollins, Utley, and Howard.  No question that the Phillies supporting cast is far superior to that of the Royals.  The good news is that the supporting cast is much easier to acquire than the elite core, and the Royals will have serious payroll flexibility to play with heading into the 2011 and 2012 seasons.</p>
<p>With Butler, Greinke, and Soria in place, this team can compete not 4 years from now but in 2011.  Right now, there is a lot of help that is 1-2.5 years away from the majors.  Even with the expected attrition of some of the pitching prospects help will arrive from the minors and certainly be contributing to the team by 2012.</p>
<p>Getting prospects back for Soria doesn&#8217;t guarantee they will fill any holes adequately while you open up another hole at the same time.  </p>
<p>One of the sayings about trades is that the team that gets the established ML talent is the one that typically &#8220;wins&#8221; the deal, and there is a reason for that.  Yes there are exceptions, but I&#8217;d venture a guess that at least 9 out of 10 times, deals like trading Soria wind up backfiring on the team that acquires the prospects for the established talent.</p>
<p>Just my take on things.  At some point the Royals are going to HAVE to draw a line in the sand and hang on to some of these players if they ever expect to build a winning organization.</p>
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		<title>By: bfos7215</title>
		<link>http://kingsofkauffman.com/2009/10/25/trading-joakim-soria-is-fools-gold/#comment-351</link>
		<dc:creator>bfos7215</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 02:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingsofkauffman.com/?p=1973#comment-351</guid>
		<description>Sorry, Soria just doesn&#039;t have much of any value for this organization.  This is an organization that is no where near competing, holding on to him in hopes we are in a playoff push in 4 years makes little sense to me.

In rebuttal to your points:

1.  No one is suggesting to take whatever we can get.  If there are so many closers on the market that Soria&#039;s value is diminished don&#039;t pull the trigger.  It won&#039;t be long before the landscape of available closers changes.

2. All of these great points are also what would make him so valuable to any team.  He&#039;s top-notch, young, and cheap.  He&#039;s the perfect piece to get back the highest level prospects in return.

3. It also sends the message that this organization is serious about building a contender the right way.  And that doesn&#039;t include holding on to a piece that doesn&#039;t fit.  It has nothing to do with spelling the end of Butler or Grienke&#039;s time in KC.

4. This is the one that I think is the most important.  There is no core.  Grienke and Butler don&#039;t make a core.  They are 2 great young players with nothing else around them.  There is nothing coming behind them.  The organization is so devoid of high minor talent that unless a major move is made, this team has no chance for the next 4-5 years.  And we know where waiting for the next crop of draft picks lands us.

5.  Again, if you can&#039;t find a trade that almost immediately fills two or three of the MANY holes in this organization, fine, don&#039;t make a trade.  But, those holes, that lack of any kind of core, is exactly why a trade would be something the organization should be looking into and remain open to.

6.  We do have to.  Unless you&#039;re fine with .400 seasons with a great closer who gets a save opportunity a few times a month.

7.  Right now, Soria&#039;s value is sky high.  Any number of things can change that.  Right now, the odds that Soria will ever be a key piece on a competitive Royals squad is extremely low.  They just have no other moves they can make.

I&#039;ll grant this, I&#039;m not as big on trading him now as I was earlier in the year.  This should have been done long ago.  Same as trading Meche.  And Meche is a great example of what happens when you are scared to make a move.  He ends up with a busted arm and now we are stuck with his bloated contract and hoping he can rebound.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Soria just doesn&#8217;t have much of any value for this organization.  This is an organization that is no where near competing, holding on to him in hopes we are in a playoff push in 4 years makes little sense to me.</p>
<p>In rebuttal to your points:</p>
<p>1.  No one is suggesting to take whatever we can get.  If there are so many closers on the market that Soria&#8217;s value is diminished don&#8217;t pull the trigger.  It won&#8217;t be long before the landscape of available closers changes.</p>
<p>2. All of these great points are also what would make him so valuable to any team.  He&#8217;s top-notch, young, and cheap.  He&#8217;s the perfect piece to get back the highest level prospects in return.</p>
<p>3. It also sends the message that this organization is serious about building a contender the right way.  And that doesn&#8217;t include holding on to a piece that doesn&#8217;t fit.  It has nothing to do with spelling the end of Butler or Grienke&#8217;s time in KC.</p>
<p>4. This is the one that I think is the most important.  There is no core.  Grienke and Butler don&#8217;t make a core.  They are 2 great young players with nothing else around them.  There is nothing coming behind them.  The organization is so devoid of high minor talent that unless a major move is made, this team has no chance for the next 4-5 years.  And we know where waiting for the next crop of draft picks lands us.</p>
<p>5.  Again, if you can&#8217;t find a trade that almost immediately fills two or three of the MANY holes in this organization, fine, don&#8217;t make a trade.  But, those holes, that lack of any kind of core, is exactly why a trade would be something the organization should be looking into and remain open to.</p>
<p>6.  We do have to.  Unless you&#8217;re fine with .400 seasons with a great closer who gets a save opportunity a few times a month.</p>
<p>7.  Right now, Soria&#8217;s value is sky high.  Any number of things can change that.  Right now, the odds that Soria will ever be a key piece on a competitive Royals squad is extremely low.  They just have no other moves they can make.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll grant this, I&#8217;m not as big on trading him now as I was earlier in the year.  This should have been done long ago.  Same as trading Meche.  And Meche is a great example of what happens when you are scared to make a move.  He ends up with a busted arm and now we are stuck with his bloated contract and hoping he can rebound.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott W</title>
		<link>http://kingsofkauffman.com/2009/10/25/trading-joakim-soria-is-fools-gold/#comment-331</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kingsofkauffman.com/?p=1973#comment-331</guid>
		<description>Definitely on your side on this one.  We need to shake up the roster, perhaps a lot, but not by dealing Greinke, Butler or Soria.  The rest of them I don&#039;t care so much about, but those 3 should be basically untradeable unless a blockbuster opportunity comes knocking.  And even then I would hesitate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Definitely on your side on this one.  We need to shake up the roster, perhaps a lot, but not by dealing Greinke, Butler or Soria.  The rest of them I don&#8217;t care so much about, but those 3 should be basically untradeable unless a blockbuster opportunity comes knocking.  And even then I would hesitate.</p>
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